Fitzpatrick Thread -- Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jets agree to 1-year, $12M deal

jetgreen13

founding JFU member..
Jet Fanatics
My "plan" is to get Fitz in the fold at a reasonable price and then pray like crazy that Geno (or either of the kids) pulls off a miracle and takes the starting gig away from him.

Do I think that will happen? No. But do I think it's crazy to bend to Fitz's demands just to get him to sign? You say "north of 9 million" -- I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat, but apparently $12M isn't enough so I'm not sure what you're thinking.

And if you think fans don't "hate" Geno, I'm not sure what thread you've been reading . . .
fitzpatrick could have asked of part ownership of the team but i guessing he won't get that either.. he's definitely has a better shot at 12 million..

QB is arguably the most difficult position in all of sports.. having no confidence in the 2nd biggest dope on the team being the starting QB is "hate??"

what's a smith supporter?? fair & balanced.....
 

OCCH

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
fitzpatrick could have asked of part ownership of the team but i guessing he won't get that either.. he's definitely has a better shot at 12 million..

QB is arguably the most difficult position in all of sports.. having no confidence in the 2nd biggest dope on the team being the starting QB is "hate??"

what's a smith supporter?? fair & balanced.....

When you don't even want to consider the POSSIBILITY that a player may improve, yes I define that as hate. Doesn't mean you're wrong, it simply means you won't even entertain the idea. How could you NOT "hate" having that type of player on your team? I have to assume you'll be doing cartwheels if/when he gets cut and I'll be there to read all the boasting about how you were right all along. That's fine -- I have no stake in this except to see the Jets find the promised land, regardless of how they get there.

The funny thing is, I don't think I like Geno any more than you guys do. If he never steps behind center for us again, so be it. But just because I think he WON'T get better doesn't mean I think he CAN'T. And as long as there's a chance -- well . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
 

jetgreen13

founding JFU member..
Jet Fanatics
When you don't even want to consider the POSSIBILITY that a player may improve, yes I define that as hate. Doesn't mean you're wrong, it simply means you won't even entertain the idea. How could you NOT "hate" having that type of player on your team? I have to assume you'll be doing cartwheels if/when he gets cut and I'll be there to read all the boasting about how you were right all along. That's fine -- I have no stake in this except to see the Jets find the promised land, regardless of how they get there.

The funny thing is, I don't think I like Geno any more than you guys do. If he never steps behind center for us again, so be it. But just because I think he WON'T get better doesn't mean I think he CAN'T. And as long as there's a chance -- well . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
well, based on your logic you must "hate" fitzpatrick more than i "hate" smith.. fitzpatrick threw 31 TDs last season.. all smith did was continue to embrace himself & his employer..

BTW, you deal in absolutes more then me.. stuff like "your nuts if you think this.." or "no jet fan should _______," stuff..
 
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JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
When you don't even want to consider the POSSIBILITY that a player may improve, yes I define that as hate. Doesn't mean you're wrong, it simply means you won't even entertain the idea. How could you NOT "hate" having that type of player on your team? I have to assume you'll be doing cartwheels if/when he gets cut and I'll be there to read all the boasting about how you were right all along. That's fine -- I have no stake in this except to see the Jets find the promised land, regardless of how they get there.

The funny thing is, I don't think I like Geno any more than you guys do. If he never steps behind center for us again, so be it. But just because I think he WON'T get better doesn't mean I think he CAN'T. And as long as there's a chance -- well . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

What utter drivel. People think Geno is a bad player, it has nothing to do with hate. Like I said, I hate the way he plays, and I hate watching him, because he stinks and the last time he was in the lineup, we went 3-10, and I hated that, sure. WHy did you love it so much? Why do you want the Jets to go 3-10 every year? Because of potential?
 
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JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
How many 3-10 stretches do I have to endure before I'm allowed to not want to watch him play anymore? Do I really have to continue pretending to think he's going to improve, even though I don't? Here, watch this:

I HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY THAT GENO SMITH MAY IMPROVE!

But I don't think he's going to improve to a serviceable level, and I don't want to wait around while he tried to improve. Oh I guess I'm a bad fan, now.
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Hell, let's just hold an open tryout and sign the guy who throws the ball the furthest and runs the fastest, because athletic ability is the ONLY factor that matters! Those guys sure will have potential! Let's waste YEARS of the franchise just giving them all a try! To NOT do that is to not even admit the POSSIBILITY that they could get better! But they could! ANything could happen in the world! SO we have to keep trying things, no matter how unlikely they are to work! Or else we hate the people we aren't trying out!
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
well, based on your logic you must hate fitzpatrick more than i hate smith.. you fitzpatrick threw 31 TDs last season.. all smith did was continue to embrace himself & his employer..

BTW, you deal in absolutes more then me.. stuff like "your nuts if you think this.." or "no jet fan should _______.."

Wow, that's more than Geno has had in his entire career! But we all have to wish that Geno is the starter anyway! Because he has potential!

And hey, why even bother with absolutes, when you can just totally ignore points that you don't want to answer! Just wave them away, like they didn't exist, or even better, just totally 100 percent ignore them! It's an easy way to win a debate!
 
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JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
According to quantum theory, there is a greater than zero chance that I may be a great NFL QB. Better sign me up!
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
And, what if, somewhere out there, is the guy who never played before, but is The Natural? There's a greater than zero chance of that! You have to admit the possibility of that! How many years should we spend trying to find him?
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Oh, look, I found a mushroom! There's a chance it could be delicious. I'd better eat it, or else I must HATE the mushroom and won't even admit it's potential!
 

OCCH

Pro Bowl 1st Team
Jet Fanatics
Oh, look, I found a mushroom! There's a chance it could be delicious. I'd better eat it, or else I must HATE the mushroom and won't even admit it's potential!

Just guessing here, but are you a holdover from JI?

Can't quite remember, but these were some of the useless posts I'd have to read over there, so wondering if they're going to start infesting this site as well.

Either you refuse to understand what I'm saying or I'm flat out not explaining it right. Either way feel free to entertain us further with your standup routine -- I'm sure someone out there finds it humorous . . .
 

Elias

The Invisible Man
Big Fish
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Let's cool down for a little. The qb discussion is like politics. Always gets heated
 

TebowCan'tThrow

Supersize!
The Mod Squad
Jet Fanatics
Jets Global
Let's cool down for a little. The qb discussion is like politics. Always gets heated

Just like in politics I don't want either of them. I want Petty or Hack. Won't happen, but like in politics I will just live with whatever average QB we get until a better one appears.
 

Fudbutter

Franchise Tagged
Jet Fanatics
Can Joe Montana be Cloned?

Can Joe Montana be Cloned?

Unfortunately, none of the 4 QB's potentially available, signed or not, will get me a home playoff game this year (sigh).

Out of curiosity, I looked up the turnover ratio of the QB's noted above. Using a simple ratio of turnovers (INT + Fumb) to games played, it comes out like this:

Fitzpatrick 1.55
Smith 1.65
Sanchez 1.80
Namath 1.81
Montana 1.00

Early Fitzpatrick was right in line with Smith to date

Bottom line kiddies:
You never know when an Earl Morrall comes along (a journeyman QB who emerges as a star, for a short while) or a young player who suddenly wizens up (see: Terry Bradshaw). Some of you folks would have absolutely fried Namath daily at the beginning of his career.

If you are so sure of any outcome in sports, please do yourself a favor and never go to Vegas with your rent money.
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Unfortunately, none of the 4 QB's potentially available, signed or not, will get me a home playoff game this year (sigh).

Out of curiosity, I looked up the turnover ratio of the QB's noted above. Using a simple ratio of turnovers (INT + Fumb) to games played, it comes out like this:

Fitzpatrick 1.55
Smith 1.65
Sanchez 1.80
Namath 1.81
Montana 1.00

Early Fitzpatrick was right in line with Smith to date

Bottom line kiddies:
You never know when an Earl Morrall comes along (a journeyman QB who emerges as a star, for a short while) or a young player who suddenly wizens up (see: Terry Bradshaw). Some of you folks would have absolutely fried Namath daily at the beginning of his career.

If you are so sure of any outcome in sports, please do yourself a favor and never go to Vegas with your rent money.

The question is not whether sometimes young players figure it out. They do. It is not whether older players sometimes figure it out. They do. The question is how much time and effort and resources do you put into a player in the hopes that he figures it out? For every young player who wises up and gets it, there are probably 10 or more who don't. So, when is it time to move on? Given the fact that most great QBs simply are highly touted high first round picks, how much time do you spend on others?

And I understand that sometimes scouting can show you something that the numbers don't necessarily show ... but is anyone claiming that is the case with Geno? Is there anyone who honestly looks at him and thinks "we have something special here?" Or is the best evaluation, "well, he seems to have the physical tools, lets hope he can learn to be more intelligent on the field?"
 
J

JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Furthermore, early Fitz was in line with Geno, but late Fitz is not in line with current Geno. Plenty of teams cut Fitz loose. Would it have been worth it for them to keep waiting for him to improve to what he is today? Or was it worth it to roll the dice and hope that you could get someone better, right away? Given the indelible passage of time and all of our own sad mortality, I don't want to waste more time than I have to. And if the end result is that Geno develops into Fitz, then I'm not sure I want to wait 10 years for that to happen.
 
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JohnnyBaseball1

Guest
Just guessing here, but are you a holdover from JI?

Can't quite remember, but these were some of the useless posts I'd have to read over there, so wondering if they're going to start infesting this site as well.

Either you refuse to understand what I'm saying or I'm flat out not explaining it right. Either way feel free to entertain us further with your standup routine -- I'm sure someone out there finds it humorous . . .

I dunno, I wrote a whole long, thoughtful post, and you didn't respond to it, at all. I engaged with your analogy, I tried to explain why I didn't think it was apt. In other words, you said "these two things are similar, so we should treat them the same" and I gave my reasons why they are fundamentally dissimilar and should not be treated the same. You did not respond to that.

I went on to explain the qualities I believe an NFL QB must possess to succeed; qualities that go beyond that which can be measured in practice. I explained that I don't believe Geno has exhibited those qualities. You did not respond to that.

I made three analogies of my own. No response to any of them.

No, you read all that, and responded that I obviously hate the kid. You compared him to Mark Sanchez and said he went 8-8. so he can't be that bad.

I wrote another long, thoughtful post, explaining further the reasons why I didn't think your analogy worked. No response.

I wrote a paragraph explaining why I didn't think going 8-8 was persuasive, which was mostly because of how hilariously incomplete of an analysis it was. No response.

I tried to write a paragraph pushing you to place Geno in the context of other players, rather than evaluating him in a vacuum. I asked questions about how much time is correct to invest in a player. No response.

And then, at the end, I included a throwaway line about hoping Geno becomes Joe Montana, and THAT is what you chose to respond to. Very weak.

But, still undeterred, I attempted once more to respond to every point you made. And I got nothing in response.

So yeah, after all that, I got annoyed. I wasted a bunch of time writing that stuff. Writing thoughtful, responsive posts was a complete waste of time; the favor was not returned.

And remember that all I'm doing is assessing the probability of future success of a player, and then deciding whether, in my opinion, the team should continue to devote time and resources to his development. That is a process that every team engages in with every player. It is not controversial. And it doesn't mean the team "hates" the player when they decide, no, it isn't worth the resources. That's when they cut players.

Oh, and by the way, no, I posted at Scout from 2002 until the time when we split, and then I posted at MachinaVerde's interim board for Scout posters, and then we all came here. I dunno, maybe hobson can vouch for me. I would hate to think that I made so little impression in 14 years that people couldn't even remember that I was around, but I suppose that's possible, too.
 
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NYJETSDAN16

Repeat Offender Pro Bowler
Jet Fanatics
Lets put an end to this debate....




Check out his turn overs. Many of which there is no pressure on the guy and he still throws it into double coverage. This leads me to believe, regardless of talent around him, he will continue to do what he wants. How many pick 6's can we endure as fans.

These are highlights that demonstrate his struggles and the lack there of any improvement. Sure, i could have posted a sugar coated highlight vid of all his TD's, but why begin to fool our selves that he hasnt learned from his mistakes....on and off the field.
 
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