Hams TOP 10 All-Time by Position (Offense)

[Green Jets & Ham]

I'm bored and needed something to do

I'm starting with the offense, when I get some spare time again, I'll do likewise with the defense.

So here we go, my ten best offensive players by position, in no particular order:

QB

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
John Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Namath
Dan Fouts
Steve Young
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady

Notes: Obviously my most glaring omissions are Peyton, Favre and Elway, but I'm of the opinion that all three are slightly overrated while guys like Fouts and Namath are underrated, and trust me, I'm well aware of Namath's stats, particularly his TD to INT ratio, but Namath was a gunslinger in an era when DB's could maul WR's all over the field and DL's/LB's could do things with the QB the would get you thrown in prison today, or at least looking at a lengthy suspension. IMO Namath was one of the two or three best pure passers I have ever seen (Lombardi called him the perfect passer), and if he played today, by todays rules, he might throw for 6,000 Yards in a single season! As for Fouts, he was Dan Marino before Dan Marino, lighting defenses up like a X-Mas tree on a weekly basis. One of the two best QB's whoever lived that doesn't have a ring in my view, the other being Marino. Lastly, the guy who makes this list, easily, if his body wasn't ravaged and his prime wasn't cut short by injuries; Bert Jones (Baltimore Colts). At his peak Jones was as great as any QB on this list. When guys like Bill Belichick and Ernie Acorsi talk about Bert Jones, till this day they talk about him in reverential tones.

RB

Jim Brown
OJ Simpson
Earl Campbell
Barry Sanders
Gale Sayers
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Eric Dickerson
Bo Jackson
Billy Sims

Notes: Its tough to narrow this one down to ten, there are so many great RB's to choose from, so you're bound to leave off some extremely worthy candidates no matter which way you slice it, which certainly makes for some interesting conversation. I have some pretty big omissions here; Adrain Peterson, LaDainian Tomlinson, Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen and quite a few more, but if I can only pick ten, these are my ten and I'm sticking with it, including the last guy on that list (Sims), even if he's been largely forgotten. For you young guys who know little to nothing about Billy Sims, like Sayers and Bo Jackson his prime and career were cut short by knee injuries, in an era when blown out knees were a death blow for RB's, but like the other two, at his peak he was as great RB as I have ever seen. Even other Great RB's of that era were in awe of his skills, and he didn't sneak up on the league, he was the Heisman trophy winner at Oklahoma and the #1 Overall Pick in the draft by the Detroit Lions. He was basically Leonard Fournette in college and his greatness was anticipated in the NFL from day one, and he wasted no time validating the hype ...

Billy Sims NFL rookie debut highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhs8YZYqjmE

WR

Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
Lance Alworth
Michael Irvin
Sterling Sharpe
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Largent
Charlie Joiner
Terrell Owens


Notes: Owens was a giant doosh, but if I didn't leave OJ off my RB's list, I can't leave Owens off this one. You can make an argument for Marvin Harrison, Andre Reed or Cris Carter too I suppose, but these are my ten. Incidentally there are some real underrated guys who are every bit as good as Harrison, Reed and Carter in my view, and maybe better. Guys like Don Maynard, Gary Clark, Al Toon, Wesley Walker, Mark Clayton, Cliff Branch, Fred Biletnikoff, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Drew Pearson, Tony Hill and quite a few more, and if you want a guy who looked to have a great career ahead of him before he tore up his knee, John Taylor (49ers).

TE

Kellen Winslow
Tony Gonzalez
Shannon Sharpe
Antonio Gates
Rob Gronkowski
Mike Ditka
Jimmy Graham
John Mackey
Dave Casper
Todd Christensen

Notes: Ozzie Newsome and Mark Bavaro were considerations here as well, and I'm sure there are other omissions I could have considered, and equally sure you guys will point them out.

OL

Larry Allen
Jim Parker
Art Shell
Tony Boselli
Anthony Munoz
John Hannah
Bruce Matthews
Jim Otto
Mike Webster
Dermontti Dawson

Notes: I thought about breaking it down by position (OT, OG and C), but quickly came to the conclusion to just go with the more generic "OL" because so many of the all-time greats (Allen, Parker, Matthews etc.) played and excelled at multiple positions, including the guys who didn't make the list. The biggest omissions for me was Dwight Stephenson & Larry Little.

Let the debates being ...

 

[flgreen]

I'm bored and needed something to do

I'm starting with the offense, when I get some spare time again, I'll do likewise with the defense.

So here we go, my ten best offensive players by position, in no particular order:

QB
Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
John Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Namath
Dan Fouts
Steve Young
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady

Notes: Obviously my most glaring omissions are Peyton, Favre and Elway, but I'm of the opinion that all three are slightly overrated while guys like Fouts and Namath are underrated, and trust me, I'm well aware of Namath's stats, particularly his TD to INT ratio, but Namath was a gunslinger in an era when DB's could maul WR's all over the field and DL's/LB's could do things with the QB the would get you thrown in prison today, or at least looking at a lengthy suspension. IMO Namath was one of the two or three best pure passers I have ever seen (Lombardi called him the perfect passer), and if he played today, by todays rules, he might throw for 6,000 Yards in a single season! As for Fouts, he was Dan Marino before Dan Marino, lighting defenses up like a X-Mas tree on a weekly basis. One of the two best QB's whoever lived that doesn't have a ring in my view, the other being Marino. Lastly, the guy who makes this list, easily, if his body wasn't ravaged and his prime wasn't cut short by injuries; Bert Jones (Baltimore Colts). At his peak Jones was as great as any QB on this list. When guys like Bill Belichick and Ernie Acorsi talk about Bert Jones, till this day they talk about him in reverential tones.

RB

Jim Brown
OJ Simpson
Earl Campbell
Barry Sanders
Gale Sayers
Walter Payton
Tony Dorsett
Eric Dickerson
Bo Jackson
Billy Sims

Notes: Its tough to narrow this one down to ten, there are so many great RB's to choose from, so you're bound to leave off some extremely worthy candidates no matter which way you slice it, which certainly makes for some interesting conversation. I have some pretty big omissions here; Adrain Peterson, LaDainian Tomlinson, Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk and quite a few more, but if I can only pick ten, these are my ten and I'm sticking with it, including the last guy on that list (Sims), even if he's been largely forgotten. For you young guys who know little to nothing about Billy Sims, like Sayers and Bo Jackson his prime and career were cut short by knee injuries, in an era when blown out knees were a death blow for RB's, but like the other two, at his peak he was as great RB as I have ever seen. Even other Great RB's of the era were in awe of his skills, and he didn't sneak up on the league, he was the Heisman trophy winner at Oklahoma and the #-1 Overall Pick in the draft by the Detroit Lions. He was basically Leonard Fournette in college and his greatness was anticipated in the NFL from day one, and he wasted no time validating the hype. Highlights from his NFL rookie debut verses the Rams, only the start of a brilliant OROY campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhs8YZYqjmE

WR

Jerry Rice
Randy Moss
Lance Alworth
Michael Irvin
Sterling Sharpe
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Largent
Charlie Joiner
Terrell Owens


Notes: Owens was a giant doosh, but if I didn't leave OJ off my RB's list, I can't leave Owens off this one. You can make an argument for Marvin Harrison, Andre Reed or Cris Carter too I suppose, but these are my ten. Incidentally there are some real underrated guys who are every bit as good as Harrison, Reed and Carter in my view, and maybe better. Guys like Don Maynard, Gary Clark, Al Toon, Wesley Walker, Mark Clayton, Cliff Branch, Fred Biletnikoff, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Drew Pearson, Tony Hill and quite a few more, and if you want a guy who looked to have a great career ahead of him before he tore up his knee, John Taylor (49ers).

TE

Kellen Winslow
Tony Gonzalez
Shannon Sharpe
Antonio Gates
Rob Gronkowski
Mike Ditka
Jimmy Graham
John Mackey
Dave Casper
Todd Christensen

Notes: Ozzie Newsome and Mark Bavaro were considerations here as well, and I'm sure there are other omissions I could have considered, and equally sure you guys will point them out.

OL

Larry Allen
Jim Parker
Art Shell
Tony Boselli
Anthony Munoz
John Hannah
Bruce Matthews
Jim Otto
Dermontti Dawson
Dwight Stephenson

Notes: I thought about breaking i down by position (OT, OG and C), but quickly came to the conclusion to just go with the more generic "OL" because so many of the all-time greats (Allen, Parker, Matthews etc.) played and excelled at multiple positions, including the guys who didn't make the list but were seriously considered.

Let the debates being ...

Ham, great post.

I've been watching college football, and drinking all day, with #3 , #5 son,and #1 daughter.

Had way to many beers to do the research to dispute you.

Your really putting Marino #2 ?.

As much as I hate to say this, Brady is a lot better then Marino.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Ham, great post.

I've been watching college football, and drinking all day, with #3 , #5 son,and #1 daughter.

Had way to many beers to do the research to dispute you.

Your really putting Marino #2 ?.

As much as I hate to say this, Brady is a lot better then Marino.

FLG, otice the part I red'ed out ...

So here we go, my ten best offensive players by position, in no particular order:

 

[flgreen]

FLG, otice the part I red'ed out ...

Yep, your right. I'm sorry

Like I said I watched way to much college football with my kids today.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Yep, your right. I'm sorry

Like I said I watched way to much college football with my kids today.

Did you see the end of that Michigan/Michigan State game?

WHOLLY SMOKE!!!

Go see the post I left in the NCAA forum, specifically citing that game.

 

[HYATT™]

I'm bored and needed something to do

I'm starting with the offense, when I get some spare time again, I'll do likewise with the defense.

So here we go, my ten best offensive players by position, in no particular order:

QB

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
John Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Namath
Dan Fouts
Steve Young
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady

Notes: Obviously my most glaring omissions are Peyton, Favre and Elway, but I'm of the opinion that all three are slightly overrated while guys like Fouts and Namath are underrated, and trust me, I'm well aware of Namath's stats, particularly his TD to INT ratio, but Namath was a gunslinger in an era when DB's could maul WR's all over the field and DL's/LB's could do things with the QB the would get you thrown in prison today, or at least looking at a lengthy suspension. IMO Namath was one of the two or three best pure passers I have ever seen (Lombardi called him the perfect passer), and if he played today, by todays rules, he might throw for 6,000 Yards in a single season! As for Fouts, he was Dan Marino before Dan Marino, lighting defenses up like a X-Mas tree on a weekly basis. One of the two best QB's whoever lived that doesn't have a ring in my view, the other being Marino. Lastly, the guy who makes this list, easily, if his body wasn't ravaged and his prime wasn't cut short by injuries; Bert Jones (Baltimore Colts). At his peak Jones was as great as any QB on this list. When guys like Bill Belichick and Ernie Acorsi talk about Bert Jones, till this day they talk about him in reverential tones. [/B]

Skip Elway, Favre, & Peyton, what about Slingin' Sammy Baugh? Or Sonny Jurgenson?
If you ask any of the old timers who actually saw those men play, you'd have to shuck at least 2 QBs on yer list and Namath and Brady are the 2 likeliest candidates.
Can you HONESTLY tell me with a straight face - that you'd even know Brady's name if CLE, AZ, BUF, DET, MIA, MIN, JAX, WAS, ATL, NOS, CIN, or HOU, had drafted him in 2000?
HELL NO !!! you can't say that.
He is 100% a Frankenstein creation of the Cheater, Bill Belichick.
End of THAT silly story.
Seriously, Jets fans have suffered so much abuse from that franchise they think every player there was an All-Pro. They aren't, but their HC is #1 or #2 in the pantheon of NFL Gawds, I can tell you that much.

People who put Unitas in such a list and not Favre, kinda stymie my brain.
Different generations, same guy.
If you include one, you gotta include the other, and Elway sorta falls right in it with the 2 of them.

Namath played in an era when DBs could rape WRs?
So what?
So did a LOT of QBs, and plenty of them outplayed Namath both statistically and in actuality.
It's PURE, unadulterated homerism to say he was one of the Top-10 QBs of all time.
Hell, Bart Starr won 5 titles in 9 years - 3 of them in a row, and HYATT™ wouldn't put him anywhere close to the Top-10 of all time. Starr was a much better field general than Namath at least.

Steve Young is another guy in the list HYATT™ would take issue with.
If he was so hot, why wasn't he so hot in Trampa?
He wasn't even that good in the USFL, fer fak sakes, and Mighty Mouse could have gotten a QB job in that league.
A great QB can make bad teams look pretty damn good. Young NEEDED the 49ers to do so.

Yer pretty astute on the Billy Sims deal too. Not a lot of people appreciate just what a talent that was before he suffered the Gayle Sayers exit.
Yer also correct, You can't just pick 10 and call it a day with RBs. The NFL has had too many good ones. (Alan Ameche, for instance - another guy that injury shot down.)

Sterling Sharpe is another guy I really appreciate you having the assessment cajones to include. Another "forgotten" HoF player, but for the neck injury.

HYATT™ looks forward to your defense edition of this list.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Hyatt, thanks for the feedback, even the areas of disagreement. I appreciate the thoughtful response and there's a lot of good stuff there to chew on. The only thing I will say on behalf of Namath and my choosing to put him on this list, I'm not one of those guys who thinks any one player should be elevated beyond his ability because he experienced team success. I don't completely dismiss team success, don't misunderstand me, but too me that is one element that goes into the mix, provided he was a catalyst for his teams success and not just one of many passengers. Similarly I view stats as one element to consider, not as something that tells the whole story. Ultimately what carries the most weight with me is my own eye test. I know thats purely subjective, I get that, but I'm not trying to achieve some kind of consensus here, I'm simply giving you the ten best players by position that I have ever seen, be it in my lifetime or on film, and being something of an amateur football historian as a hobby, I've seen enough film on the players before my time (Unitas, Graham, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers et al.) to at least have a somewhat educated opinion as to their individual ability.

All that said, when I saw Namath as a kid, I thought I was watching the single best thrower of the football I had ever seen.

Now I grant you that may have been colored by my fandom so to speak, particularly being young and impressionable, and my football IQ at that time was hardly developed to the degree that it is now, but again I would note that many of his contemporaries at the time felt the same way. Whether its John Madden or Vince Lombardi, even opposing coaches and players were in awe of his mechanics and arm talent, and scores of coaches essentially used Namath as the prototype for developing pocket passers. Heck even Dan Marino admitted his father used Namath as the model for his son to use, to the point were he was essentially emulating Namath, everything from the way he glided back in the pocket and his quick release. I know that Namath is an unpopular choice for this list, even on a Jets message board, because he had one championship and a short prime due to his own excesses, but mostly due to injuries, and more losing than winning followed, and of course the TD to INT ratio is not pretty, but I contend that at his peak Namath was really the prototype for the modern pocket passer. Not Unitas and not Otto Graham, both of whom made my list. The guy who really brought the mechanics and quick release that coaches are still coaching and coveting till this day to the modern game was one Joe Willie Namath, and even now when I watch his film, his mechanics, his footwork, the way he glides back and lets it rip in an eye-blink, and that beautiful tight spiral that looks like its hydroplaning, I see a QB who would tear defenses to shreds if he was playing in todays game by todays rules. He threw for 4,000 when it was unheard of, today he'd approach 6,000.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Incidentally Hyatt, I was happy to have your agreement on Billy Sims.

I'd be curious to know if you felt likewise about Bert Jones?

 

[jetgreen13]

Incidentally Hyatt, I was happy to have your agreement on Billy Sims.

I'd be curious to know if you felt likewise about Bert Jones?

obviously you didn't ask me hammer but i remember jones as marino before marino in the AFCE or in the NFL for that matter..

i also remember the shoulder injury that ended him being the same guy prior..

he was a bad cat..

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

obviously you didn't ask me hammer but i remember jones as marino before marino in the AFCE or the NFL for that matter..

i also remember the shoulder injury that ended him being the same guy..

J13, well said. There are scores of young people who never even heard of Bert Jones or Billy Sims for that matter, much less know how great these players were, and I blame the NFL for that, they should not let such great players go largely forgotten. I could understand other (non collision) sports allowing that to happen, but in the NFL great talents can see their careers snuffed out in an eye-blink, thats the unfortunate downside of this violent game we all love and by no means what to wussify, but the NFL should honor their great ones whose primes and/or careers are cut short by injuries. They've done a good job with that with some guys, like Gale Sayers and Kellen Winslow, even Dwight Stephenson struck down in the prime of his career by a blown out knee was eventually recognized by the Hall of Fame, yet for some reason they've allowed Jones and Sims to be forgotten. When I do a list like this one, I almost feel a responsibility as a fan of the game to make sure young people know who these guys are and are at least aware of their existence.

The main point I would like to drive home to young people, because its true, is that there are very few players in Canton, in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, who were better than Bert Jones and Billy Sims, they were just luckier, stayed healthy and were allowed to fulfill their potential. They weren't better than these guys, just more fortunate.

 

[NewMFS62]

Its really difficult to compare offensive linemen across eras because the current players are bigger and heavier. So, when comparing linemen against those of their era, I'll put in a vote for Ron Mix (San Diego Chargers) who is in the Hall of Fame. He was the key player in the O Line in front of those great Chargers offenses.
You'll run into the same situation when you rate the defensive linemen, and it will be compounded by changes across eras from 5 to 4 to 3 man defensive fronts.

Later

 

[HYATT™]

Its really difficult to compare offensive linemen across eras because the current players are bigger and heavier. So, when comparing linemen against those of their era, I'll put in a vote for Ron Mix (San Diego Chargers) who is in the Hall of Fame. He was the key player in the O Line in front of those great Chargers offenses.
You'll run into the same situation when you rate the defensive linemen, and it will be compounded by changes across eras from 5 to 4 to 3 man defensive fronts.
What was old is new again, after a short pause for a 4-3 defense commercial break.

Later

5 & 3 man fronts are really the same thing.
We just now use the 3-4 defense label to distinguish between the old skool 3-4 (5 man front), and the modern 3-4 version, which evolved quite a bit because of the increased athleticism of the athletes.

What was old is new again, with a short pause for a 4-3 defense commercial break.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

I might have to add Ryan Fitzpatrick to my all-time RB's list

Dude looked like Marcus Allen on that 20 Yard sprint to the end-zone.

 

[NewMFS62]

5 & 3 man fronts are really the same thing.
We just now use the 3-4 defense label to distinguish between the old skool 3-4 (5 man front), and the modern 3-4 version, which evolved quite a bit because of the increased athleticism of the athletes.

What was old is new again, with a short pause for a 4-3 defense commercial break.

Nope. Not the same. The outside men in the 5 man front were not responsible for covering wide receivers like they are in today's 3-4. The outside guys are now linebackers, not linemen. And I'm not even going to get into the responsibilities of the outside guys on the wide tackle 6 (used in the days of the wing-T in the early NFL. -Ask your daddy)

Later

 

[nycdan]

QB

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
John Unitas
Otto Graham
Joe Namath
Dan Fouts
Steve Young
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady

Fouts was great. But Peyton > Fouts and probably most of the other guys on this list. It's not really that debatable IMO.

Another guy you didn't mention but who has to be talked about here is Warren Moon. Remembering that he started in the CFL and still had an amazing career in the NFL, he's just too much 'in the pack' with a few of these other guys to be forgotten.

Quick review: 9-time Pro Bowl, HOF, 7th all-time in yards, 8th in TDs BUT HE HELD BOTH OF THOSE LAST TWO RECORDS WHEN HE RETIRED. Had he had those six years in the CFL in the NFL, he might still have all the records.

And honestly, I don't know how you leave Favre out. Tough list to cut down to 10.

 

[skop]

One guy's list is his list...I appreciated the read.

I loved that you included Sims! He came into the league about the time I started watching football. I have always he was the best #20 to play in DETR!!!

Record books would look different if that guy didn't get hurt!

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

One guy's list is his list...I appreciated the read.

I loved that you included Sims! He came into the league about the time I started watching football. I have always he was the best #20 to play in DETR!!!

Record books would look different if that guy didn't get hurt!

Sims was a beast at Oklahoma too. One Sooners fan posted the TOP 10 RB's in Sooners history at youtube and he listed Billy Sims #1 , ahead of Adrian Peterson, and you won't see many Sooners fans in that thread arguing otherwise. Some highlights from his 1978 Heisman season, and you can see why the Lions took his #1 Overall in the draft.



His career being snuffed out so quickly by injuries is one of the real tragedies in NFL history. I agree that he had the ability to rewrite the record books if he stayed healthy. He might have been the best combination of size, power, explosion, cutbacks and speed I have ever seen at the position. He was truly the whole package.

 

[JoeyStylez]

Sims was a beast at Oklahoma too. One Sooners fan posted the TOP 10 RB's in Sooners history at youtube and he listed Billy Sims #1 , ahead of Adrian Peterson, and you won't see many Sooners fans in that thread arguing otherwise. Some highlights from his 1978 Heisman season, and you can see why the Lions took his #1 Overall in the draft.



His career being snuffed out so quickly by injuries is one of the real tragedies in NFL history. I agree that he had the ability to rewrite the record books if he stayed healthy. He might have been the best combination of size, power, explosion, cutbacks and speed I have ever seen at the position. He was truly the whole package.

I watched Billy Sims play, and he was a legit back. But I cannot take seriously any all-time RB list that does not have Emmitt Smith on it. Durability is a factor for any all-time list. He played 14 years, and was even the leading rusher on the Cardinals his last season. Not to mention carrying the team on his back during that crucial game in '93 to determine hole field advantage in the playoffs with a separated shoulder. And that's just 2 examples. He is easily a top 5 Rb in anybody's list, and there's no way to justify putting Sims above Smith.

 

[HYATT™]

Nope. Not the same. The outside men in the 5 man front were not responsible for covering wide receivers like they are in today's 3-4. The outside guys are now linebackers, not linemen. And I'm not even going to get into the responsibilities of the outside guys on the wide tackle 6 (used in the days of the wing-T in the early NFL. -Ask your daddy)

Later

As I mentioned, the game has EVOLVED, and the 3-4 evolved from the 5-2 with it, which is why we use the 3-4 designation now.

Don't give me any crap about outside defenders not covering receivers back then, they just do a LOT more of it now and the outside defenders have gotten faster to accommodate the change in function.

Back in the 5-2 days ALL linemen, (OL & DL), weighed about as much as OLBs do today, (255#-265# or so).
The advent of the 4-3 by Landry moved linemen into the 300# class, making the position name shift for the outside defenders in the 3-4 necessary.
Back in the 5-2 days there were no "designated outside pass rushers". In fact most of the pass rush was predicated on inside blitzing and defensive ends were mostly responsible for run containment - which they, (DEs), still are in the 3-4.

OLBs covering receivers is still not optimal, but with the increased size of receivers, 4-3 defenses had to come up with the Cover 2 or Trampa 2 defense and 3-4 defense OLBs have had to adjust to the added duty and thus can no longer be as big as the other DL players.
Part of the reason OLBs in a 3-4 CAN cover receivers is because they no longer line up at the LoS all the time and have a built-in cushion for covering receivers by playing off the LoS now.
If they had to jamb these big receivers at the LoS like DBs do, they'd be left eating smoke 5-10 yards downfield.

 

[Savage69]

Terrell Davis over Billy Simms any day of the week and twice on Sunday..