Punishment is in

[SackExchange]

The request for the electronic communications was very narrow in scope. Brady never had to turn over his cell phone. He had to turn over the communications. Lawyers deal with sensitive material and confidential information all the time - data that is far more sensitive frankly than Tom Brady's text messages and emails. The only reason not to turn the information over is because there is something in there that does not paint a favorable picture. If he did nothing wrong, he would have turned over the communications. So let's be clear, Brady never had to turn over this phone physically, just the communications data.

This.

And the investigators agreed to allow Patriots' counsel to have full control over what was being handed over, ensuring that nothing that was not pertinent would be exposed. For Brady not to accept those favorable terms is practically an admission of guilt.

 

[Football51]

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 4h4 hours ago

The NFLPA's appeal letter to the NFL on Patriots QB Tom Brady's 4-game suspension is now public. Click here: https://www.nflpa.com/news/all-news/notice-of-arbitration-appeal-of-tom-brady …



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 4h4 hours ago

In the letter, the NFLPA/Jeffrey Kessler say they intend to call Goodell as a witness in the appeal, therefore he can't serve as arbitrator.



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 3h3 hours ago

NFLPA/Kessler: "The NFLPA believes that neither Commissioner Goodell nor anyonewith close ties to the NFL can serve as arbitrator"



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 3h3 hours ago

One thing to remember -- Tom Brady and the union would have to exhaust options thru the CBA before going to federal court.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 4h4 hours ago

The NFLPA's appeal letter to the NFL on Patriots QB Tom Brady's 4-game suspension is now public. Click here: https://www.nflpa.com/news/all-news/notice-of-arbitration-appeal-of-tom-brady …



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 4h4 hours ago

In the letter, the NFLPA/Jeffrey Kessler say they intend to call Goodell as a witness in the appeal, therefore he can't serve as arbitrator.



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 3h3 hours ago

NFLPA/Kessler: "The NFLPA believes that neither Commissioner Goodell nor anyonewith close ties to the NFL can serve as arbitrator"



Albert Breer @AlbertBreer · 3h3 hours ago

One thing to remember -- Tom Brady and the union would have to exhaust options thru the CBA before going to federal court.

But Goodell appointed himself arbitrator after the appeal was filed. So it seems that little attempt at trickery did not succeed.

 

[Football51]

The union will use that as an excuse to take it to federal court after they lose the appeal.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

The union will use that as an excuse to take it to federal court after they lose the appeal.

Nothing will be better, if they are that stupid. Then they get to get testimonies under oath from the equipment guys, Brady, and maybe even Belichick. And then also get to see a subpoena for Brady's phone records.

 

[Green Jets & Ham]

Boston Globe

Patriots latest spin on Deflategate has us going in circles

By Dan Shaughnessy
May 15, 2015

SEATTLE - Now the Patriots want you to believe that Jim McNally referred to himself as “The Deflator’’ because he was always trying to lose weight.

Wow. In non-legal, unscientific terms, that’s what we call a good old-fashioned whopper.

The Patriots are insulting your intelligence again. Because they can. Because they know that most Patriots fans believe the team can do no wrong.

The Patriots are merely victims of jealous rivals and a league run by buffoons. They hate us ’cause they ain’t us. Got it? Good.

Fort Foxborough has become an NFL college town on a par with Tallahassee, Fla. The Patriots are not going down without a fight and will enjoy universal support of a fan base thankful for all the franchise has accomplished in the last 15 years.

On Thursday, the Patriots delivered the latest counterpunch in this fiasco, releasing a 20,000-word rebuttal to the Ted Wells Report. Heavy on legalese, misdirection, and Ideal Gas Law, the cluttered defense was immediately accepted as the manifesto of Patriot Nation.

Any good lawyer will tell you that when you have nothing, the best course of action is to accuse the accuser, and the never-yielding Patriots have done this in spectacular fashion.

I originally came to Seattle to talk to Seahawks fans about Pete Carroll and the worst coaching decision in the history of sports. I wanted to know how Hawks fans felt about losing the Super Bowl to New England when Carroll elected to throw a slant pass over the middle when he was 1 yard from a Lombardi Trophy and had the NFL’s best downhill runner in his huddle. The gentle folks of the Pacific Northwest were happy to talk about the disappointing loss.

“It still hurts, but he’s a good coach and a good guy,’’ said A.J. Thingh, who owns a Seattle limousine company. “I’m not really mad at him. He’s done good work. One bad call doesn’t make someone a bad coach.’’

(Tell that to Grady Little.)

“We are very understanding, forgiving fans,’’ said the polite young woman behind the desk at a downtown hotel. “I mean, I couldn’t go to work the day after that game because I was so upset, and we really didn’t talk about it for about three months, but I think everyone here supports the coach and the team.’’

“Everyone around me was dumbfounded when we saw that play,’’ said camera technician Greg Youtsey. “As heartbreaking as it was, I tried to justify the decision.

“We’ve very loyal to Pete Carroll around here, but we were all wondering what he was thinking. A couple of months have eased the pain, but it’s still on people’s minds. It’s deflating.’’

Oooh. There’s that word.

I was in mid-interview with yet another coffee-drinking Carroll sympathizer when I learned that Patriots lawyer Dan Goldberg had delivered the club’s exhaustive counterpunch to Wells.

The tome doesn’t explain why the Patriots suspended McNally and John Jastremski last week, but it provides repetitive detail and explanations regarding many other aspects of Wells’s finding. There’s even a Nobel laureate chemist (a scientific co-founder of a company partially bankrolled by Robert Kraft) poking more holes in Wells’s flawed science.

“The Wells Report in Context” explains that McNally went to the bathroom to . . . you know . . . go to the bathroom when he disappeared with the AFC Championship footballs on Jan. 18. Not to deflate them.

Swell. But basically, all the stuff the Patriots said Thursday was the same stuff they said to the Wells investigators. Wells didn’t believe them the first time. Nor did the NFL. So how is this going to change?

The NFL Players Association officially filed its appeal for Tom Brady Thursday. We’re still waiting to see whether Kraft and the Patriots also will appeal.

It’s hard to escape the conclusion that this is headed to court. That sounds good for folks who want to see the league embarrassed and the Patriots exonerated.

But be careful what you wish for. Court means disclosure, never a friend of the Patriots. Fear of disclosure is what led the Patriots to these harsh penalties in the first place.

Court means testimony under oath, and opening up all e-mails, texts, and telephone calls. You are not allowed to sit on the stand and tell the judge, “We’re on to Cincinnati.’’

 

[ucrenegade]

Good I really hope it goes to court and they get people under oath.

 

[NickSINYC]

Good I really hope it goes to court and they get people under oath.

I wish but could they really be that stupid?

 

[JohnnyBaseball1]

Why would Tom Brady want to go to Federal Court? Is it because he knows that THERE ARE RULES that the court will follow? Is it because he thinks what was done to him was UNFAIR, because it was AGAINST THE RULES? And that he deserves the protection of THE RULES? Everyone likes the rules that protect them, and everyone hates the rules that hold them back from doing what they want to do. Technically, though, we're all supposed to follow all of them. It's funny to watch someone who flouts the rules immediately run and seek protection via those very same rules, essentially.

 

[Football51]

I think Shaun O'hara said on ESPN that Brady wants it to go to court so that the "extreme punishment" against him is lifted. According to O'hara, the punishment in the CBA for doctoring a football is a $25,000 fine. O'hara said that he believes that Brady (union) would expect the court to give him that punishment.

 

[McJet]

The appeal process should include having Brady take a lie detecter test.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

I think Shaun O'hara said on ESPN that Brady wants it to go to court so that the "extreme punishment" against him is lifted. According to O'hara, the punishment in the CBA for doctoring a football is a $25,000 fine. O'hara said that he believes that Brady (union) would expect the court to give him that punishment.

The rule says the punishment is not limited to that fine. So the million dollar fine plus the suspension and draft picks are completely consistent with the rule.

 

[SackExchange]

Why would Tom Brady want to go to Federal Court? Is it because he knows that THERE ARE RULES that the court will follow? Is it because he thinks what was done to him was UNFAIR, because it was AGAINST THE RULES? And that he deserves the protection of THE RULES? Everyone likes the rules that protect them, and everyone hates the rules that hold them back from doing what they want to do. Technically, though, we're all supposed to follow all of them. It's funny to watch someone who flouts the rules immediately run and seek protection via those very same rules, essentially.

It makes no sense that he would refuse to cooperate with the investigation, and then go to the courts. He will have to hand over what he withheld if he goes to the courts.

 

[Football51]

The rule says the punishment is not limited to that fine. So the million dollar fine plus the suspension and draft picks are completely consistent with the rule.

The fine for the organization falls under the repeat offender clause. Brady, has never been in trouble as an individual. The union is going to argue that his punishment is excessive. The Pats punishment will stand.

 

[NickSINYC]

The fine for the organization falls under the repeat offender clause. Brady, has never been in trouble as an individual. The union is going to argue that his punishment is excessive. The Pats punishment will stand.

I would think the NFL would argue the 4 game ban was also a result of lying to investigators and withholding information and not just deflating footballs.

 

[ucrenegade]

I wish but could they really be that stupid?

Arrogance should be one off the deadly sins

 

[Football51]

I would think the NFL would argue the 4 game ban was also a result of lying to investigators and withholding information and not just deflating footballs.

That's what I'm hoping for as well. It just seems that when these cases go to court, the league ends up on the short end of the stick.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

The fine for the organization falls under the repeat offender clause. Brady, has never been in trouble as an individual. The union is going to argue that his punishment is excessive. The Pats punishment will stand.

Has nothing to do with repeat offenses. Here is the rule, from the Wells report, p. 35:

Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment
managers and coaches are allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any
individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the
person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will
be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.

So one offense for altering footballs can have a potentially unlimited punishment,

 

[Elias]

Has nothing to do with repeat offenses. Here is the rule, from the Wells report, p. 35:

Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment
managers and coaches are allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any
individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the
person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will
be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.

So one offense for altering footballs can have a potentially unlimited punishment,

Could it then be argued that the penalty is excessive? It seems like for this the league was alright with $25k. Pats can make the argument that the penalty was excessive i think and have it reduced.

 

[Jet Fan RI]

Could it then be argued that the penalty is excessive? It seems like for this the league was alright with $25k. Pats can make the argument that the penalty was excessive i think and have it reduced.

Maybe. But the rules say the commish has the authority to make a decision. Four game suspensions have been given for using weed. I think Goodell could easily confirm the penalties and wait for the Pats to go to court. Then a subpoena could bear all kinds of fruit that could do a lot more damage than the current penalties.